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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2935
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Posted - 2012.09.18 15:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:and what about the heavy assault missile? doesn't it need a buff? noone uses them...
Well, thats because the HAM is supposed to be the high-damage, close range variant. Right now heavy missiles are a high-damage, long range variant. There's little reason to equip HAM's when you can get get almost the same DPS and much longer range. Scaling back the heavy missile DPS allows the HAM's to shine as the superior choice if you want maximum DPS. I predict that HAM's will become much more popular for Drakes, caracals, and other ships wanting to achieve optimum DPS in a fitting. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2936
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
For all those that are upset about the heavy missile nerf - we need one of the spreadsheet jockeys here to throw up a graph of DPS vs range for all four battlecruisers. Compare max skilled Drake with HML, navy missiles to a Ferox, Brutix, Hurricane, and harbinger (also with max skills) using the longest-range ammo. Ignore modules and rigs for now - we've seen both tank and gank varieties of all of the above.
Comparing raw DPS and range both before and after the changes, it becomes quite apparent why HML's are being brought in line with other weapons systems. They should provide consistent damage, certainly, but do not need to win both in maximum DPS within optimal AND a base range that exceeds the falloff of most of the long-range turrets.
It's hard to see with numbers on a page - but if you look at the damage curves, they tell the whole story. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2936
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Posted - 2012.09.18 16:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Athena Themis wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:For all those that are upset about the heavy missile nerf - we need one of the spreadsheet jockeys here to throw up a graph of DPS vs range for all four battlecruisers. Compare max skilled Drake with HML, navy missiles to a Ferox, Brutix, Hurricane, and harbinger (also with max skills) using the longest-range ammo. Ignore modules and rigs for now - we've seen both tank and gank varieties of all of the above.
Comparing raw DPS and range both before and after the changes, it becomes quite apparent why HML's are being brought in line with other weapons systems. They should provide consistent damage, certainly, but do not need to win both in maximum DPS within optimal AND a base range that exceeds the falloff of most of the long-range turrets.
It's hard to see with numbers on a page - but if you look at the damage curves, they tell the whole story. Yes because paper numbers is totally how eve pvp works. Yeah ok.
Of course it doesn't.
I'm simply asking why missiles should provide consistent DPS that is higher than all other long range turrets in their optimals and can project that DPS longer than those same turrets' falloff distance. What is wrong with having advantages to choosing other weapons platforms besides HML's ? Why not have pro's and con's for each instead of HML being better in every single way? Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2939
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ashera Yune wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Of course it doesn't.
I'm simply asking why missiles should provide consistent DPS that is higher than all other long range turrets in their optimals and can project that DPS longer than those same turrets' falloff distance. What is wrong with having advantages to choosing other weapons platforms besides HML's ? Why not have pro's and con's for each instead of HML being better in every single way? Because those long range systems can outdps HML at closer ranges? Isn't that not obvious? How did a dummy like you become CSM?
Um, please actually run the numbers - check out rails on the Ferox, rails on the Brutix, beams on the Harbinger, and artillery on the Hurricane. Load tech 2 long-range ammo. Compare. Please demonstrate how these systems do more raw DPS at closer ranges than HML's, than you can continue calling me a dummy CSM. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2940
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:For all those that are upset about the heavy missile nerf - we need one of the spreadsheet jockeys here to throw up a graph of DPS vs range for all four battlecruisers. Compare max skilled Drake with HML, navy missiles to a Ferox, Brutix, Hurricane, and harbinger (also with max skills) using the longest-range ammo. Ignore modules and rigs for now - we've seen both tank and gank varieties of all of the above.
Comparing raw DPS and range both before and after the changes, it becomes quite apparent why HML's are being brought in line with other weapons systems. They should provide consistent damage, certainly, but do not need to win both in maximum DPS within optimal AND a base range that exceeds the falloff of most of the long-range turrets.
It's hard to see with numbers on a page - but if you look at the damage curves, they tell the whole story. Something like this? http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/lrc.gifThis is with max skills, no other modules besides the weapons and long range ammo.
Yes, exactly. Many thanks for providing this. As you can see in the graph, heavy missiles pretty much dominate this range class of weapons, with the only weapons system providing any advantage at all being railguns on a Ferox - and at a huge DPS hit to achieve this.
If you run the same graph after the changes Fozzie is proposing, you will see that there are now actual advantages to using other weapons besides HML at these ranges. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2941
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:If you're going to compare long range guns and HMLs, use the long range tech II ammo in the HML too.
Then do your graphs again with CN scourge vs. CN antimatter and Navy MF.
At least talk apples to apples. Then you can at least make useful comparisons.
You're suggesting that the shorter range, higher DPS, faction HML ammo should be able to be projected consistently farther than the falloff of most the other long-range turret platforms? Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2942
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Posted - 2012.09.18 17:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:War Kitten wrote:If you're going to compare long range guns and HMLs, use the long range tech II ammo in the HML too.
Then do your graphs again with CN scourge vs. CN antimatter and Navy MF.
At least talk apples to apples. Then you can at least make useful comparisons.
You're suggesting that the shorter range, higher DPS, faction HML ammo should be able to be projected consistently farther than the falloff of most the other long-range turret platforms? Are you suggesting that missiles should be instant damage?
No, not really. I'm just pointing out the many advantages missiles have had to offset the fact that they are not instant damage. I would certainly agree that there's a lot of variables in motion here to be considered.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2947
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote: Those ships are getting their skulls cracked by the nerfhammer in order to make room for other ships to be flown. It really is necessary, and your response is a perfect example of how individual players never have a game's long term interests at heart. They only have their own short term interests in mind, even if it kills the game in the process.
-Liang
Not to mention that there's plenty of threads out there where players rightfully express concern about "stat creep" whenever CCP's response to imbalance is solely to buff a statistic. Either way, these kind of changes inevitably cause complaint regardless of merit.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2953
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm Down wrote:I don't think one player every said Heavy Missiles needed a massive DPS nerf. I think most people said nerf range...
They probably did, but..... Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3130
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Posted - 2012.10.03 23:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Doc Severide wrote:Besides, regardless what anyone in this thread has said, the decision has been made, no one will be heard anyway... Why waste asking opinions when you've already decided?
Well aren't you the cheerful one!
You forgot about the part where Fozzie asked for feedback people gave it to him and than he changed things. There is that. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
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